Category: NoToHullTigers

The City Till We Die group notes with interest that Barnsley FC are offering their supporters the chance to vote on a new badge for their club, via the website www.bebarnsley.com.

Barnsley supporters are being offered a choice of five options. They can choose one of four new designs, or choose to keep the club’s existing badge.

In a club statement on 9 August 2013, Hull City stated: “A new badge, to be used from the 2014-15 season, will be designed and created in consultation with fans over the coming months.”

City Till We Die believes that a poll of supporters is an essential part of any such consultation process, and that such a poll is meaninglessness if it only offers a choice between a range of unacceptable options.

We also believe that what is good enough for supporters of Barnsley FC should be good enough for supporters of Hull City AFC.

We therefore call upon the club to confirm that:

• Any change to the club badge will be subject to a vote by supporters.
• Any poll of supporters on a new badge will include an option to keep the existing design (currently in use on the shirts for the 2013-2014 season) – including its current wording.

City Till We Die has been made aware of comments made by Managing Director Nick Thompson in an interview published on the iSportconnect website on Friday 1 November. You can read the full piece here: http://bit.ly/NickThom

During the course of the interview Mr Thompson states, “the fans who are campaigning to retain the letters AFC in the official business name actually don’t use it to describe themselves. It is about keeping the key elements that are important to the identity and the essence of the brand. Two brackets, an AFC and the word Limited are not essential.”

This is inaccurate. The club’s business name (changed from “Hull City Association Football Club (Tigers) Limited” to “Hull City Tigers Ltd” in March 2013) is not the focus of the No To Hull Tigers campaign. Our only interest in the new business name is the degree to which its increasingly widespread use outside of a business context causes confusion.

City Till We Die is opposed to changing the playing name of the football club to Hull Tigers or Hull City Tigers – unless a majority of supporters vote in favour of doing so. We will campaign forcefully for a no vote in any such fan referendum.

We are disappointed by Mr Thompson’s misrepresentation of our views, disagree strongly with his assertion that only 5% are opposed to a name change, and reject his negative stereotyping of supporters of the campaign.

Mr Thompson will be leaving the club in December. City Till We Die will be asking to meet with his successor at the earliest opportunity to make our aims clear.

CITY TILL WE DIE

CTWD have been speaking to Sunderland fan SAM LIGHTLE from ‘A Love Supreme’ a popular Sunderland fanzine ahead of the crucial game with Hull City this Saturday. Here’s what he had to say on the proposal of a name change ever arising at his club…

Not at my club… Sunderland

 Football today seems to be run on the principles of money, money, money … If you have a lot of cash then you’re going to be successful. Football has almost become a platform for the world’s richest men to show off their wealth by buying a Premier League club…

Yes we all want to see super stars come to our club and for us to win more than we lose but is that really what the real values of football are about? As a Sunderland fan I love the history behind the club, I love how our ground is built on the site of one of the City’s old mines to honour the city’s heritage something that my family were involved in as well as my friend’s families.

But when this foreign investment comes in, do they really care or are they quietly ignorant to the fact of the huge traditions that we have in this country and at our specific clubs individually? However, if our foreign owners were to change our name to SFC and take out the Association part, I wouldn’t be too fussed, it’s just when they change the name to suit their bulging pockets.

When we got the nickname as ‘the Black Cats’ our former one as Rokerrites was never an official one, however, our new one came through an internet vote. Although, it was at the time when the internet was in its infancy so not many people knew about it (making it a pointless process really).

When we moved to our new stadium many people wanted to name it ‘New Roker Park’ in memory of the old ground but I suppose it was inevitable that the club would change it as part of a new start but we felt we were in good hands at the time because the then chairman, Bob Murray, had close links to the city.

If my club was to change their name, nickname, kit colour, stadium name for commercial and business reasons I would hate it. Because from an outside point of view it turns you into a laughing stock but do the owners care about that? Of course not. They only care about the money in their pocket and the profit margins. The idea of a working class game is no more; it’s all about corporate people as that’s who the club can make more money off.

Football has lost its soul.

Sam Lightle – A Love Supreme (Sunderland fanzine)

CTWD: What do you think of a football club changing its name?

It doesn’t seem to happen very often, apart from Swansea going from Town to City, I can’t think of one in the League in the 50 odd years I have been watching football. A football club is rooted in its community and will always be known by its original name. Hull Sharks soon reverted to Hull FC didn’t they?

Having said that, there are plenty of sheep who will follow you. The guy at Fulham looks a prime candidate for that (Fulham Jaguars anybody?) and the lower leagues will be up for it. For me, it would be another nail in the coffin of Premier League football.

CTWD: What would you Sunderland fans think if it was your club?

This one wouldn’t be very pleased, irrespective of which moniker was stuck on the end. Can’t see it happening to be honest, but if it did, I will be leading the boys out of the trenches.

CTWD: Is the AFC part of your name important?

Probably not as much as yours, where it is used to distinguish City from FC. It is part of an old terrace chant and it does define us and make us different from parvenus like Southampton. It looks good on a badge as well.

CTWD: How did the fans take to the nickname change from the Rokerites to the Black Cats and what consultation was undertaken by the club with the fans?

No real Sunderland fan has EVER used those two nicknames. It has never been a part of the fans perception of the club. For some clubs it defines who they are – you are always known as the Tigers, Rotherham are The Millers, Newcastle are the Riff-Raff, but Sunderland have always been Sunderland.

CTWD: How was the Stadium of Light name chosen and what consultation was undertaken by the club with the fans?

This one is a tad more contentious. Former owner Bob Murray was the man behind the move from dear, dilapidated Roker to the new site, built on the site of the closed (thanks to Thatcher) Wearmouth Colliery. We all thought that the name of the pit, a huge undersea operation which had employed people from Sunderland and County Durham for over 100 years, would be the name chosen.

So, The Stadium of Light was a bit of a surprise. It gave our local rivals (who simply cannot beat us in derby matches) a cheap rhyming joke – some could even work it out themselves, but the majority had to be told- and it wasn’t very original, seeing as Benfica had beaten us to it by a number of years.

The name is a tribute to all those miners who toiled underground, day after day, in the Durham coalfield and who, on their day off, flocked to Roker Park by bus and train. There is a huge Davy Lamp at the entrance and the mining message is interwoven into the club crest and the club ethos. The marketing possibilities are great as well – there was a story that Phillips were going to sponsor it but naught came of it as they closed their factories in the region.

No consultation, but it was Bob Murray’s baby and he put together the finance so he could call it what he wanted I suppose. It’s better than St James’ Park, that’s for sure (does SB still say that in his interviews?)

CTWD would like to thank Peter Sixsmith from Salut! Sunderland for his answers. Also, you can see how we returned the favour to Salut! Sunderland as they covered the CTWD campaign amongst other things, when speaking to one of our committee. Click the link below…

http://salutsunderland.com/2013/10/hull-city-who-are-you-notohulltigers-yes-to-bruce-elmo-meyler-mcshane/

1. “Assem Allam has put in his money so surely he can do what he wants?”

We remain eternally grateful that Dr. Allam guaranteed the future of the club by securing the debt run up by the previous regime. Without his input the club would have faced liquidation.

We believe that the owner should conduct the business in any way that sees the football club prosper. But that shouldn’t give Dr. Allam the right to do whatever he wants with the club’s name and tradition. A football club is a part of a community. The fans are informal stakeholders in the club. Many fans have spent an awful lot of money following Hull City over the years, and in bad times the fans have propped the club up.

Dr. Allam loaned the club an eye-watering amount of money. It’s important to remember that many fans spend a huge amount on following Hull City too, in relative terms. Collectively, fans provide the club with a significant proportion of its income.

Dr. Allam must be allowed to make decisions on how the club is run. However no football club owner should be allowed to dismiss a club’s history, tradition and its place in the community.

2. “Why would I protest against the Allams after everything they’ve done?”

This isn’t a protest against Dr. Allam or his family. This isn’t a protest against the way they’ve run the football club or an attempt to force them out.

This is a campaign to save the name of “Hull City A.F.C.”. When Dr. Allam purchased the football club, he declared it a “gift to the community”. We want to show Dr. Allam that the community loves and values the football club and feels that the name is an important representation of that community and the city.

We will show Dr. Allam the respect he deserves for the work he has done at the football club and for what he has achieved. But we will continue to urge him to re-think a decision that would dismiss the history and the tradition of the great club that he worked so hard to save.

3. “I’ll still be able to call them whatever I like won’t I?”

Fans currently call the club “Hull City”, “City” or “The Tigers” on a regular basis. This won’t change in the short term.

As it starts to change the whole crowd won’t be supporting the same team. Some fans will have Hull City shirts and some will have Hull Tigers shirts. Some fans will sing Hull City songs and some will sing Hull Tigers songs. It won’t be as enjoyable for anyone.

The future generations of supporters won’t call the club “Hull City” or “City”. Our children and grandchildren will only know “Hull Tigers”. Eventually chants like “City till I die” and “Come on City” will fail to make sense and die out.

While we may still call them whatever we like, “Hull Tigers” will become the common name. It will be “Hull Tigers vs. Leeds United” on the fixture list, “Hull Tigers” on the kit and the badge and should we ever win a trophy, it will be engraved “Hull Tigers”. 109 years of tradition will be dismissed.

How many MK Dons fans still call their club “Wimbledon”?

4. “What if I don’t like Hull Tigers but I can live with Hull City Tigers?”

“Hull City Tigers” is not the goal. Dr. Allam stated that “City” is a lousy identity and that a brand name should be as short as possible. He has been referring to the club as “Hull Tigers” in media interviews for a while.

5. “Wouldn’t you rather be Hull Tigers playing in the Premier League than Hull City playing in League Two?”

This isn’t a choice that has to be made. We are already “Hull City” playing in the Premier League. Hull City have achieved remarkable success in the last ten years with the name as it is.

Hull City achieved the third quickest rise from the fourth tier to the top tier of English football in history. Hull City drew crowds of over 20,000 in the fourth tier. Hull City holds the record for a fourth tier crowd in the modern (Premier League) era. That happened because the community cherishes Hull City. The community supported people who invested in its future.

There is no proven case for why the club shouldn’t continue to be successful. Dr. Allam has not provided evidence of any market research or expert opinion that would support the need for change. The club already receives a huge amount of TV money. It already has a strong identity with the unique striped shirts, the highly marketable badge and one of the best and oldest nicknames in English football.

We support Dr. Allam in his quest to attract interest and investment in the football club. If he feels that he can take Hull City on to another level then he has our backing. We urge him to do so while staying true to the history of the football club and recognising its position at the heart of the community.

6. “Why don’t you move with the times?”

There may well be other industries, sports and even football markets such as America and Australia where this sort of thing is seen as a means of progressing. That isn’t the case with football in England.

English football is still special. It is still viewed with awe around the world. Millions of people in Scandinavia, mainland Europe, America, Australia and Asia support clubs in England that they have never seen in the flesh. These people grew up watching and adoring English football and they still do.

They love the traditionalism. They love the names, the nicknames, the colours and the badges. For all the changes that have been embraced in English football over the past 30 years, some things remain sacred.

Even clubs who now travel over 20,000 miles in pre-season to sell themselves to emerging markets recognise that the history and tradition of the club is a massive part of the reason fans on the other side of the globe can feel a part of its community.

7. “Where does my donation go?”

The campaign is a strictly not for profit operation run entirely on a voluntary basis. All funds raised go directly towards materials that will raise awareness of the issue. So far, funds have been spent on printing leaflets, making badges and commissioning flags.

Additional items of merchandise (such as scarves and wristbands) will be sold to members via our website, as a way of raising extra funds.

We also have an ethical sourcing policy so that wherever possible the funds will go back into the local economy. We will prioritise sourcing in Hull in the first instance, in Yorkshire in the second or at minimum in the North of England. Also wherever possible, we will support independent suppliers.

Details of what donations we have received and how the money has been spent are available on request.

8. “What are you going to do if Dr. Allam doesn’t change his mind?”

The campaign will concentrate initially on uniting the fans who want the name to remain “Hull City” and emphasising the strength of the fans’ feelings.

Any change of name must be ratified by the Football Association and the Premier League, who require evidence of fan consultation. Our group intends to offer our assistance to Dr Allam and the football club to help ensure a fair, inclusive and rigorous consultation is put in place. If Dr. Allam does not consider the wishes of the fans then we will appeal directly to the FA and the Premier League to ensure that they do not endorse the change.

However, we remain confident that when Dr. Allam realises the strength of feeling that exists amongst the fan base for the 109 year old history of the name and the club then we can reach an amicable conclusion.

As has been reported on Twitter by Radio Humberside’s David Burns (after a discussion with Dr Assem Allam), on Monday City Till We Die were contacted by an assistant of Dr Allam, inviting a maximum of three representatives of our community group to a meeting with him at his offices (exact time and date TBC). 

We see this is a positive step and have asked for further details of what topics Dr Allam would like to discuss, so that we can decide who would be the most appropriate representatives to attend the meeting.

****

Dear [REMOVED],

Further to our email on Monday we have discussed your offer and are happy to set up a meeting between Dr Allam and three of our representatives. We believe this to be a positive move.

You will appreciate that we are an open and transparent organisation, so our representatives will need to report back fully to the steering group on what is discussed in order for us to appropriately inform the various fan groups we represent.

Ahead of the meeting it would be useful if you could advise us what points Dr Allam intends to raise at the meeting so we can fully prepare ourselves for the discussion and send our most appropriate representatives.

Yours sincerely,

CITY TILL WE DIE – Campaign group